Actually, I believed most every statement you made here... By what I experienced in church when I was younger. I don't remember if it was taught that way - mad, scary God raining down damnation - or if it was how I perceived it as a young person. Whichever it was - I'm 63 now - and in the past 4ish years I've learned most of the things you pointed out that 'most of us knew deep down' (except I didn't). I was trying to tell a friend- who knows the Bible well- how it was finally sinking in to my soul just HOW MUCH God loves us. Her response caught me off guard and left me speechless. She said something along the lines of - I'm so tired of this namby pamby God is love stuff... When He could just as easily smite you. 😱. It really made me sad. This was a couple years ago and I've thought about it alot. What kind of loving Father would smite His children? Yes, I fear the Lord... And have great reverence for Him.... but, thankfully, I no longer think of Him smiting me, just because He was angry, like I did before.... If that makes sense. Thank you for expanding and growing my thinking ❤️ I can't imagine how anyone gets through this life without Jesus!
Thank you for another eye opening dive into quite a few of the things I have pondered over the years. Since leaving the church my hub and I are growing in our faith together and enjoying the Bible more and more. Your words are appreciated for their clarity and wisdom- encouraging more introspection and appreciation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
This is an interesting list. As a Christian who holds to be true every doctrine considered to be essential for either Historic or Traditional Christian Orthodoxy, I find some items on your list to be doctrines Christians everywhere believe but you present them like they are contrary to what is taught.
Other points are presented like they represent Christian beliefs when no mainstream Christian church teaches them. For instance #7 that presents the Bible as single book without human input. Outside some extreme sects like KJV-Only proponents I don’t know any Christian that holds to the position you are countering. The same for point #9 about being damned for being born in the wrong country, #16 the claim that the Church and God are the same thing. I don’t know any Christian who believes these things. Likewise #22 presents the idea that Christians believe that money is evil. It is the LOVE of money that is called the root of all evil.
The list contains some doctrines over which Christians still debate such as: #10 the eternal nature of hell, or #21 eternal security.
But the list also contains some claims which are not defensible from scripture, or church history. For instance #3 that we shouldn’t fear God, #34 that we grow a soul, or #36 that what Jesus taught was set aside.
Others are made as absolute statements when they are conditional. For example #25 about your suffering not being connected to God punishing you is an absolute statement, when scripture shows that sometimes it is and other times it is not. #39 presents walking away from church as making a person’s faith stronger. There are times when that is true but often walking away from a body of believers allows the person walking to fall into deception.
I have long felt that the soul is the relationship between the mind and the Divine Gift — that essential element of “God’s Image”. The mind is transient, being inextricably bound to the material life vehicle. The Divine Gift is permanent — having come from God it is destined to return, inexorably, to God.
In my personal experience, as I continue to come to know our Father more and more intimately, I, without doubt, feel something that is at once both inside me and bigger than me, more real than me, growing as does my relationship with God. I feel this something slowly, surely, absorbing my identity, not to extinguish it but to augment it, to give it wings, to in some way become the real “me”, the me that survives dissolution of the body. And this I interpret as the soul.
This is not the theft of anything from me, but rather the loving preservation of whatever it is I have truly managed to become during the alarmingly brief 80 or 90 trips around the Sun I can expect to make. It is the treasure I am laying up in Heaven.
In the end it seems to me that it’s not your beliefs that matter all that much, but rather how you act on them. Beliefs are something like the scaffolding used during construction of a building: essential while the work is in progress, often replaced or extended, but ultimately dismantled and discarded — not really a part of the building (NYC notwithstanding). There is risk in undue emotional attachment to the scaffolding since too much focus on it might divert attention from the real work of construction.
Most profound! I've read it several times-the first with delight at the reflection of what I'm coming to realize are more common experiences. The second savoring the many phrases that carry such depth, complexity and precision in beautiful simplicity: dust of the ones who carried it; dangerous to exactly the right people; refusal to grow; illusion of self-sufficiency; grow a soul...and the third reading brought forward many more Biblical proofs of each and every point. Wow. Just wow.
Dang, I agree with every one of those truths. Best short descriptions I have read!
I was blessed not to experience control or trauma in the church building(s), but I can imagine someone can relate to each of the harsh realities you described.
Read this through tears. Thank you!
Actually, I believed most every statement you made here... By what I experienced in church when I was younger. I don't remember if it was taught that way - mad, scary God raining down damnation - or if it was how I perceived it as a young person. Whichever it was - I'm 63 now - and in the past 4ish years I've learned most of the things you pointed out that 'most of us knew deep down' (except I didn't). I was trying to tell a friend- who knows the Bible well- how it was finally sinking in to my soul just HOW MUCH God loves us. Her response caught me off guard and left me speechless. She said something along the lines of - I'm so tired of this namby pamby God is love stuff... When He could just as easily smite you. 😱. It really made me sad. This was a couple years ago and I've thought about it alot. What kind of loving Father would smite His children? Yes, I fear the Lord... And have great reverence for Him.... but, thankfully, I no longer think of Him smiting me, just because He was angry, like I did before.... If that makes sense. Thank you for expanding and growing my thinking ❤️ I can't imagine how anyone gets through this life without Jesus!
Knew deep down! AMEN.
He could smite us, but He chooses not to. I thank Him for that every day, for being a loving and forgiving God, and for making us His children.
Thank you Eko. I really enjoyed reading this. So glad I subscribed to your website.
Glad you’re here
Thank you for another eye opening dive into quite a few of the things I have pondered over the years. Since leaving the church my hub and I are growing in our faith together and enjoying the Bible more and more. Your words are appreciated for their clarity and wisdom- encouraging more introspection and appreciation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Reminds me very much of Ted Dekker’s The Forgotten Way. I love that book and I love you too.
Not to bad kid. Not too bad
The beautiful ring of Truth 🩷🙏🏻
EKO
This is an interesting list. As a Christian who holds to be true every doctrine considered to be essential for either Historic or Traditional Christian Orthodoxy, I find some items on your list to be doctrines Christians everywhere believe but you present them like they are contrary to what is taught.
Other points are presented like they represent Christian beliefs when no mainstream Christian church teaches them. For instance #7 that presents the Bible as single book without human input. Outside some extreme sects like KJV-Only proponents I don’t know any Christian that holds to the position you are countering. The same for point #9 about being damned for being born in the wrong country, #16 the claim that the Church and God are the same thing. I don’t know any Christian who believes these things. Likewise #22 presents the idea that Christians believe that money is evil. It is the LOVE of money that is called the root of all evil.
The list contains some doctrines over which Christians still debate such as: #10 the eternal nature of hell, or #21 eternal security.
But the list also contains some claims which are not defensible from scripture, or church history. For instance #3 that we shouldn’t fear God, #34 that we grow a soul, or #36 that what Jesus taught was set aside.
Others are made as absolute statements when they are conditional. For example #25 about your suffering not being connected to God punishing you is an absolute statement, when scripture shows that sometimes it is and other times it is not. #39 presents walking away from church as making a person’s faith stronger. There are times when that is true but often walking away from a body of believers allows the person walking to fall into deception.
> “The same for point #9 about being damned for being born in the wrong country,”
My Baptist friends seem to believe that.
I don’t contradict them because they think that the Bible tells them so, and they seem to have a fairly rigid and literal interpretation of scripture.
https://thelordsbaptistchurch.com/understanding-the-baptist-view-on-salvation/
> #34 that we grow a soul
I have long felt that the soul is the relationship between the mind and the Divine Gift — that essential element of “God’s Image”. The mind is transient, being inextricably bound to the material life vehicle. The Divine Gift is permanent — having come from God it is destined to return, inexorably, to God.
In my personal experience, as I continue to come to know our Father more and more intimately, I, without doubt, feel something that is at once both inside me and bigger than me, more real than me, growing as does my relationship with God. I feel this something slowly, surely, absorbing my identity, not to extinguish it but to augment it, to give it wings, to in some way become the real “me”, the me that survives dissolution of the body. And this I interpret as the soul.
This is not the theft of anything from me, but rather the loving preservation of whatever it is I have truly managed to become during the alarmingly brief 80 or 90 trips around the Sun I can expect to make. It is the treasure I am laying up in Heaven.
In the end it seems to me that it’s not your beliefs that matter all that much, but rather how you act on them. Beliefs are something like the scaffolding used during construction of a building: essential while the work is in progress, often replaced or extended, but ultimately dismantled and discarded — not really a part of the building (NYC notwithstanding). There is risk in undue emotional attachment to the scaffolding since too much focus on it might divert attention from the real work of construction.
Most profound! I've read it several times-the first with delight at the reflection of what I'm coming to realize are more common experiences. The second savoring the many phrases that carry such depth, complexity and precision in beautiful simplicity: dust of the ones who carried it; dangerous to exactly the right people; refusal to grow; illusion of self-sufficiency; grow a soul...and the third reading brought forward many more Biblical proofs of each and every point. Wow. Just wow.
Thank you, Eko. Life IN CHRIST. Free from the Religious Machine. AMEN.
This was wonderful! I can’t tell you how many times Jesus has whispered in my ear saying “Do not be afraid “!
God Bless you too! ❤️🙏✝️
Dang, I agree with every one of those truths. Best short descriptions I have read!
I was blessed not to experience control or trauma in the church building(s), but I can imagine someone can relate to each of the harsh realities you described.
The Magdalene was possessed by demons, which the Lord drove out.
Not sure why that Pope deliberately conflated her with a prostitute.
Amazing. Thank you, EKO and much love!!
Thank you.